The Dog's Name

Translated by
Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jnr
Wednesday, November 07, 2007

One interesting thing I have encountered here, especially amoung many young women is a certain fluid moral attitude towards and with other people's marriages.

And while I am not going to be so sanctimonious as to suggest that I am better than this, or have never engaged this type of fluid moral thinking, (since my dalliance with a married woman is documented here in the archives), and I also admit that some of the most desirable women I know are "spoken for" and are married to other men, yet there is this certain moral fluidity in local circles and it is something that I have encountered on more than a single occasion, and it has me thinking...Is it simply cultural? Was my earlier regret somehow "wrong" or missplaced? Is the "institution" something to be respected? Was it really ever? And I guess, I am not totally sure how I feel about it...which means I do have my belief and my stance, but I wonder if it is wrong, somehow dated, or rather a moral that belongs simply in a different geography.

The prevailing thinking seems to be "it's not my marriage", "I did not promise to honor anyone" and therefore "I have no responsibility for respecting another's promise". These are used as moral justifications for being involved in what society still deems as an adulterous affair, added to which is the age old justification, "well I don't know the other guy/girl" or "I don't really like the partner", so "I am not betraying a friend" and I have to wonder...

To what extent are we responsible for the "sanctity" of someone else's marriage? Or even someone else's relationship? Is all really fair in love and war?

Note: (Added 09:30) I am not having an affair with anyone, this post is not about me, or me having "a friend", it is just a simple question: if you are single, do you have a moral responsibility to honor the marriage of another?

Last year in the Temple of Doom, Indiana unearthed: Starting The Day...Right?

Technorati Tag: The Dogs Name, Marriage, Relationships

Lectiones Sacrae Ex Libris Indiana 06:00

29 Comments:

GiggleWorthy said...: NO ONE has any right to intrude upon someone else's marriage (or relationship, for that matter). It's simply wrong.

There are no good excuses to have an affair - only bullshit ones.

Find yourself attracted to someone who is taken? Walk away. I have. Sever like a limb so you won't be exposed to temptation.

A friend of mine had an affair (and a child) with a 40 yr old married man that lasted for 7 years and it was very nearly the end of our friendship - I simply didn't have anything to do with her during that time. We saw each other now and then at 'group' functions etc and I was always polite, but it was - and still is - impossible for me to look at her the same way, knowing that she was fucking someone elses husband.

She knew the wife and the wife even confronted her about it once (in public!) and when she denied it to this woman, the wife then APOLOGISED for her accusation. How she didn't die of shame on the spot I have no idea. My friend was only 20 but she still knew better.

She finally ended it when she discovered that he was cheating with someone else (besides from her..) and that was what made her realise he was just an opportunistic bastard.

I have fairly strong opinions about this topic, as you may have noticed...; 06:51
Enigma said...: I,m not sure if its my morals or my ego ,but I would never share a man with another woman.; 08:06
the VirginPornStar said...: This may sound a tad old fashioned or prudish of me, but whatever. The excuses you listed above, given by people to justify their affairs? It's bullshit. Screams of immature, I-can't-have-what-I-really-want-so-I'll-just-have-someone-else's, trying-to-sound-tough-to-justify-myself.

I realize sometimes there are situations where one falls in love with a married person, and if we're gonna talk about all's fair in love and war here, well pursuing someone whom you love and is married may seem fair to you, but to the partner being cheated upon, it's hardly fair at all. They've been bound to a serious promise, you're not, so move the fuck along. It's not the bloody end of the world.

And even if it wasn't us who made the vows of marriage, respecting other people's promise to love, honor and etc is respecting both the individuals who made that promise. I'm sorry but marriage isn't something one fucks around with, whether it's their own or someone else's. Even if you're fine when you cheat with someone else, when someone you're really into cheats on you, then all hell breaks loose. It's acting like the fucking world revolves around you.; 08:07
The Mama said...: My personal opinion is that adultery is just plain wrong. This is my emotional opinion.

For my logical opinion, go here. http://angelinecj.blogspot.com/2007/10/is-adultery-wrong.html; 08:48
Indiana said...: General Follow Up Comment: But do we have a moral obligation to protect the sanctity of someone else's marriage if they feel no sense to do the same? Should we respect someone else's decision when they do not do so themselves?Are we responsible for the moral decisions of another?; 09:01
Booyah said...: Honestly, I don't so much see it as protecting the sanctity of someone else's marriage. To me it is more of a self-respect thing. I wouldn't be able to look in the mirror if I were involved with someone else's husband.

I haven't been in a position where I've had to make the decision to walk away from a married man. I have, however, been attracted to married men. Once I find out they are married, it's like the attraction shifts. I still appreciate the person, but he's gone into this very defined Off Limits category and I don't give him another thought.

It's possible my perspective comes from seeing what adultery can do to a marriage and a family and wanting no part in causing such awful sadness.; 09:16
sofia said...: if we felt that moral obligation so compellingly, it would mean, well, the end of the affair. but given that the sanctity has been broached, that somehow the decision was made to to cross the threshold, and also the myriad of complications that lead to an affair, i think the very least that must be done: constantly remind yourselves of the consequences, never forget you are aiding in hurting and betraying another, and in the coming days, shield the innocent party from as much unpleasantness as you can.

it is not much, it is not done to assuage guilt, but it is something.; 09:27
GiggleWorthy said...: Indy - I think it's partly a matter of respecting yourself, partly a matter of 'doing unto others', partly self preservation and partly down to respecting the institution of marriage and what it is supposed to represent.

If you are married, you can't just walk away from that promise you made. Divorce is different- no matter what prompted it, at least someone, somewhere along the line, had the guts to say 'I know I made you a promise but I can't keep that promise anymore'.

Someone having an affair wants to have their cake and eat it OR they have no respect for themself or their partner whilst lacking the courage to make the hard call and end a situation that clearly isn't providing them with what they need.

We are NOT responsible for the moral decision of another, however we can chose to either support/encourage/condone/actively participate in such behaviour, thus reducing ourselves to their standards or we can chose to display some moral fiber and respect a promise made by another, respect a partner who we may never meet or may not like (but who doesn't deserve to be cheated on regardless) and respect ourselves in that we deserve better then a part-time partner who is actually someone elses part-time partner!

How much do you really respect yourself if you are prepared to settle for being someone's 'bit on the side'? How do you respect yourself when you have to lie - constantly - to be with that person? How much do you respect yourself when you think of the hurt and pain you could cause another person (and possibly some children) by being with that person?

If you are selfish enough to contemplate all of that and not feel guilty then no, I guess you dont have to feel responbsible and you should just go ahead and do it (and I hope that someone then does it to you one day), but if you think seriously of all those things and you do squirm uncomfortably in your seat, then what the hell are you even still thinking about it for?! Don't be selfish - walk away.

VPS is right - the world doesn't revolve around you, have some fucking respect.

And for those who really do believe that he/she will leave their partner for you - they did it to their last partner, don't kid yourself that they wouldn't do it to you. You are the rule, not the exception to it.; 10:08
GiggleWorthy said...: EEK! Essay!!! Sorry!; 10:08
bumbler said...: Depends on how serious you intend to get with said person. At the end of the day, it's their marriage and their shite--so if you're in it for the sex, i don't see how her having an affair is a problem, unless she does the after-sex guilt trip, and makes your orgasm totally worthless. However if you intend to get serious, or are in it for a "relationship" then run for the hills i say...run like the wind. :); 10:08
bumbler said...: Huh it seems like i'm the only one with no morals. LOL; 10:14
Indiana said...: Another Follow Up: Do we all have such rigid morals when the situation is not marriage, but a couple that are merely "dating"? Is our indignation reserved for the sanctity of marriage, do we feel the same when a couple are yet to committ, does the situation become less clear, does such introduce more grey?; 10:27
watergirl said...: This is what I'm dealing with right now... I think if the married person isn't dedicated to his/her marriage then its not the third parties responsibility.
That being said, on principle I hate cheaters and could never be responsible for ending a marriage nor would I want to get mixed up in that.
BUT if your best friend with benefits is casual about his marriage...

what is happening to me?? I do think it's this side of the world partly.; 10:31
GiggleWorthy said...: Taken is taken.

UNLESS it is an open relationship (and by that, I mean both parties are aware that the relationship is open!). A clearly defined open relationship is a whole other story and if you want to go there then that is fine.

If it's not open, it's not on.; 12:05
expat@large said...: There's lots of good men who want to marry,
And they wants to live well at home,
But every time they turn their back, there's a man there
Askin' darlin', is he gone?

And there's lot's of good women who wants to marry,
And they wants to live well at home,
But they afraid they might get a-hold of some rowdy man,
Won't let other women alone...

Mm-mm, oh ho,
It's not hard for you to understand,
Love can be such a sweet harmony
If you do the best that you can...

Ry Cooder, Paradise and Lunch, 1974.

Don't hurt somebody if you don't have to.

A little bit of sex with the wrong person can mean a whole lot of pain... It's the trust, hard won, so easily lost, gone forever, that hurts most.; 14:00
markwe said...: Well... I am surprised - it must be just world I live in - almost everyone seems to cheat at one stage or another - and the married girls are just as wanton as the men ... or maybe I just hear more stories than I should.; 21:38
M said...: giggle pretty much outlined all my thoughts on this. Any excuses that the single person has about abdicating responsibility in someone elses marriage is basically a bullshit excuses to excuse their own behaviour. I mean how little self respect do they have? How hard is it to say 'you know, they're married - I'm not even going to GO there'?; 04:44
Fever Dog said...: I keep writing out responses, then changing my mind, writing a new one, and starting again.

I guess what it comes down to for me is that it would be facilitating someone else's bad behaviour, which could hurt someone, and in that it would be wrong.; 05:17
Nina said...: Answer to your question is YES. Would you thank a stranger for choosing not to interfere with YOUR wife - out of respect for your marriage, if not you? Of course you would. Commitment is difficult and blah blah blah but lines need to be drawn somewhere.; 05:22
Booyah said...: I agree with Giggles. Taken is taken.

I just don't mess with that at all, you know?; 06:31
Lady Sadie said...: I think when it comes to cheating (either in a marriage or a relationship), we all have a different set of rules. It is more socially acceptable to 'condone' cheating when you are merely "involved", with the view that it was a "youthful indiscretion".

Interesting thing to note: a Jewish man who sleeps with a single female has not committed adultery under Jewish law.

There are vastly different perspectives on each side of the spectrum. I like to think that we are all free agents and when two parties make a conscious decision to cheat, they are equally liable. It is convenient to pass the buck by saying that the 'other party' was the enabler.

Cheaters know exactly what they are doing. They may or may not have considered the consequences of their actions...but the bottom line does seem to be that ultimately...they value their own feelings and desires above the feelings of others.; 08:04
Wanderlusting said...: Oh GOD!

Don't get me started. I haven't even read what M has written but I'm just gonna say I agree with her.

Recently I learned that this good little Christian girl (now, I AM a Christian girl, but I never claim to be good and that's the difference) who comes off as Ms. Perfect, used to go to the local bars here and sleep with MARRIED hockey players. ARG! Adultery is adultery whether you are religious or not and there is no justifying that you have no part in it, just because YOU are the one not married. Yes, mistakes are made but everyone must be held accountable for their actions. I know I am.; 09:08
The Horny Bitch said...: I will honour someone else's marriage b'cos I want other people to honour mine in future. Karma is a scary thing and it comes back at least 3 times more from what u inflicted..

3 kinds of guys I don't touch
1. Married
2. Attached
3. people not in the right state of mind...

U can't stop yourself from having feelings for someone, but you can stop yourself from getting involved.. Happy Deepavali =); 11:00
TC said...: Is all really fair in love and war?

Indy, NOTHING is far in love and war.; 11:05
The Mama said...: Indy: Well what about YOU? Where is YOUR opinion?; 11:39
Anonymous said...: As someone who has been the mistress, I can safely say that I never want to be that person again. I've done horrible things and didn't think twice about what the wife sitting at home was thinking. To anyone contemplating this, please think about how you'll feel when you have moved on from the relationship and the family is left in shreds, because a secret relationship/affair is never secret for long.

A homewrecker carries a guilty conscience for a very very long time.

Indy, I'm not putting my name to this because I don't want anyone who knows me to stumble across my comment, but I swear I've commented here before and you know me.; 12:59
Kat Wilder said...: No one is responsible for another person's actions and reactions; you're only responsible for your own.

If you truly believe that entering into a relationship with a married woman is a good thing for you to do, well, you'll probably find within yourself many justifications and rationalizations that will back you up and say, go for it!.

Quakers have a saying, "Let your life speak." I think that pretty much sums it up.; 13:40
Anonymous said...: I think life is too short to live in an unhappy marriage.

If his wife isn't interested in working things out, but doesn't want for a divorce because of religious reasons, and they're basically separated (in deed if not in name), then I'd have no compunctions about being with a person I love, married or otherwise.; 18:56
Farrell said...: To answer your question: Yes, you ABSOLUTELY have a moral responsibility to honor the marriage of another. Obviously, this topic is a bit too close to home for me, but I don't understand how people don't get that if you KNOWINGLY get involved with a married or otherwise "taken" person, YOU TOO ARE COMMITTING ADULTERY!; 00:28