The Dog's Name

Translated by
Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jnr
Friday, September 07, 2007

I wrote what follows below a year ago, and while I was linking to it for my "last year in the temple" I had to wonder after a year more of dating experience how much of it I still agreed with...(from here)

She said yes to the date, she already likes you enough to be seen in public...WITH YOU. It's up to you to not fuck it up...and yes, it really is that simple.

Unless she is a gold-digging, man-hating bitch (GDMHB) then if she says yes to a date and gives you her phone number then she really wants to see if you are better than the rest...she is holding out some hope that you will prove to be "nice"[1], that she will enjoy your company, that she will laugh and have fun and that you will listen to her in equal portions...all you have to do is not fuck it up...she already thinks "he's kinda cute", because unless she was very drunk, or is the aforementioned GDMHB[2], she would not say yes to being seen in public with you.

Guys: Think about that...she already thinks you're cute...now you have to show that you are something better than the rest.

...now I could step out of this argument and suggest that since I am still single I am yet to be better than the rest, and while this may indeed be true it could be that I just suck at being a boyfriend, but I would rather gloss over this fact and look at what I believe are Indy's rules for getting a second date (since I seem to be able to do this quite well)

In no particular order, they are, in my small experience all important.

You asked, you pay. If she offers and the date has gone well and you have not fucked it up you can always suggest that she pays next time, at which time you can make plans for another date ~grin~

You want somewhere nice, good food, but not over the top, you want her impressed with you, not overwhelmed by the amount of money you spent on dinner, or the venue. TGIF, Outback or Hooters will not cut it here. If you are worried, about the dinner thing being too formal, and you would rather something more casual, find a nice bar to meet "for drinks", invariably she will get hungry (as will you) and you are just a short stroll from a nice restaurant that you know.

Dress neatly, yes that means you shave. Pay attention to your shoes...she will. Do not over use the aftershave...subtle is the clue here she will get just a whiff when you kiss her hello and goodbye.

Kiss her hello...the cheek kiss is acceptable, anything more wll depend on how and where you met...most Europeans and South Americans will kiss both cheeks, if she is Dutch she will do it three times...Do not air kiss! You are not a pretentious twat, lips make contact with skin...do not slobber.[3]

It's a first date, she may feel more comfortable meeting you at the restaurant, rather than you picking her up, so let her know the time, the address and the name for the booking in case she arrives before you...

Do not let her arrive before you, make sure you arrive before her...it is permissable to sit at the table, but do not accept the menu until she gets there...you probably won't be able to stop them pouring you water...when she arrives she will invariably ask "been waiting for long?" the correct answer here is "I only just arrived myself"...if she is late and apologises for the same respond with "I am so glad you were, I only just got here and was worried that I might have kept you waiting"...put her at ease.

Sit so you face the wall. You are visual, you will scan the room, you will notice the blonde with the legs that go all the way up...she will notice you looking...so remove temptation, she is the reason you are there, so sit so that she is all there is to look at. Do not stare at her, and do not stare at her cleavage...yes you may look, she wore that top hoping you would notice, but a quick glance or 10 is enough...she will catch you, but she will like it as long as you do not talk to her boobs.[4]

Another word on kissing...in my limited experience, if she likes you, has had a good time and does want to see you again, she will kiss you at the end of the date. I know some women who say they won't kiss on a first date, but I believe this is crap. If she likes you, she will kiss you...make it passionate, let it speak for how you felt the evening went, make her go "mmm", and then leave her wondering what else you can do...if you suck at kissing, don't ask me for help, I have always been good at it. ~grin~

Do not sleep with her, no matter what the circumstances be honest with yourself, you are not that special. If she sleeps with you on a first date, it sends you a message, so I repeat: you are NOT that special. Besides if she wants too and you don't she will want you more...she'll be pissed off a bit, but when she thinks about it in the morning she will be impressed and wonder in what other areas you have a moral code you stand by. In this day of flexible morals, having an opinion and sticking to your beliefs will be refreshing to her.[5]

If you do sleep with her...unless she kicks you out after the act, stay the night...you may or may not go out for breakfast or linger in bed for rounds 5 and 6 the next morning...whatever you do if you like her, tell her you had a great time, and call her sometime that afternoon/early evening to let her know "you had a really amazing time, and WANT TO SEE HER AGAIN"...do not leave her wondering if you just used her...because until you take her out again, she will be wondering just this.

If you enjoyed the date, do not be afraid to tell her...do not wait 3 days (what fucking moron made that rule up) who cares if you appear eager, she is used to guys not ever calling, the fact that you really like her will impress her...(think about it, people generally like people who like them) So the next day, not too early, rule of thumb think 10:30 -11 call her and let her know you had a great time, you enjoyed X (relate something she told you, or happened) and suggest that you get together again...[6]
New Rule: (Thanks P) If you liked her and you want to see her again, finalise the date by having the cab drop her home before it takes you home. While escorting her to a cab is also chivalrous, apparently escorting her home, even if it is out of your way (like one end of the island to the other) is considered by many women to be a very classy thing to do.
Note: This is something Indy never even considered or thought about...sure I escorted her to the cab...but taking her home...sure I did it sometimes but not as a rule. So now it is.

Year Later Edits
[1] I don't really believe that women really want a "nice guy", though I concede that they may want a guy with the capacity to be nice, they do not actually want a "nice guy". Bothe my experience and those of the Blokes at the Pub bear this out.
[2] M asked in the last post what a GDMHB would even be doing on a date with a guy...simple she is seeking validation that the low position she believes men crawled from is in fact the case. She wants another story to cackle to her cronies, so they can nod their heads and lament into their cosmopolitans how, 'All men are bastards" and "how all the good ones are taken or gay?"
[3] I still believe this completely.
[4] A woman wants you to see her as a woman...so you are allowed to do it. Just don't leer.
[5] Having the courage and strength of self to stand up for what you believe in is a powerful aphrodisiac for many woman...having morals and displaying chivalry does not make you a boring twat, as the anon comments from Brosef accused, instead it speaks of a comfortable sense of old school knowledge that in today’s world is lacking and many women crave. If she thinks your boring and craves something different then she is the wrong woman for you anyway, cut your losses and walk away being true to yourself...do not look back.
[6] I have actually been told by many women that waiting to call them is actually better than being immediately honest...I am not really sure how I feel about this or whether it reduces it to much to "a game", but I am assured that it can be a preferred...mmm...my suggestion be yourself and go with your gut feeling, if she mistakes your interest for desperation then she is probably not worth your time anyway.

Last year in the Temple of Doom, Indiana unearthed: She Said Yes To A Date

Technorati Tag: The Dogs Name, Dating, Women, Dinner

Labels: The Dog Dates

Lectiones Sacrae Ex Libris Indiana 06:00

19 Comments:

Tiny said...: I do check the guy's shoes when I go out with a date, although I haven't ruled out anyone because of the shoe issues.

I think it's a great gesture if the guy drives or walks the girl home, unless she doesn't want him to do so.

And I like your remark about taking the seat that is facing the wall so as to avoid temptation to check out other girls. Very smart!; 08:45
The Mama said...: It's funny. I sortof remember reading this before. Have I been reading your blog for a year already??; 11:22
Peranakan Dude said...: Dude, let's be frank here. You're ang moh, and that means you have women flocking to you yes?

My point is that you'll always have the GDHMB types running after you, no fault of your own. Not that I am putting down the Singapore women-- like I said, I love them all-- just that between you and me, your chances of scoring are much higher, dude (read: expat, supposedly high professional job title, nice salary package= mighty good catch); 13:23
sofia said...: Peranakan Dude makes a good point. =)

but what do you mean by "women do not really want a nice guy"? is the bad-boy-wanted syndrome really so prevalent?; 13:45
Indiana said...: Tiny: I usually try to sit perpendicular to the woman rather than across from her, but will face the wall if given the option...my eyes sometimes have a mind of their own and I don't want them to betray me.

Mama: Looks like it :-)

Dude: I wish.

Ok. Let's debunk the angmoh myth right now.

It has been my experience that unless one is walking through Orchard Towers women in this city rarely flock to anything other than a sale :-)

Unless you work in Raffles Place, drink regularly after work at either Rouges, BQ Bar or Harry's and describe your job with two intitials the chances of having women flock to you regardless of race is low.

Yes, I freely concede the point that being an expat often, though less these days, does mean a generally higher salary and an often generous bonus package. And I accept that women are often attracted to men with money who are therefore able to provide financial security.

But here is where the Myth falls down.

Unless the said Angmoh is looking to just have a good time, and yes I know there are some who are, just as some local guys are only looking for the same thing. If a guy is in anyway serious about finding a relationship, he is not interested in a woman who wants him only for his money, anymore than you would be.

So if this flock of available women exists please point them out to me (I'll send you my number), because I keep hearing about how easy the Angmoh's have it with the women here, but I am yet to see it...if anything I have found that I have to work harder, I have to tread more carefully and I have to be more "perfect" to overcome a stereotype that I might be here for one thing only.

And as for my chances being higher than yours, that is clearly not the case since you have LaFemme while yours truly is still quite single.

Sofia: He makes a point, but I am not sure its a good one, rather it is a plaintive cry I hear often from my local mates who rather than lift their game and romance a woman properly would rather blame it on skin. It is based on the myth of the SPG and is a stereotype that both belittles caucasians and demeans any local women who chose for personal reasons to date an expat.

And if indeed I am completely wrong and the Dude is right (which he might be)...would you please point out where I can find this flock of women who so desire to date me, with no effort on my behalf.

Yes, simply put: women want a bad boy, but being women ~grin~ it can never be that simple. Women, as far as I have experienced, want a guy who is capable of being nice, is a gentleman but has a little bad boy in him to keep life both interesting and exciting...it's the angel-whore dichotomy in reverse.; 14:22
non-Blondie said...: I spent almost one entire relationship trying to buy the guy nice shoes - he was a fan of fake Birkenstocks and (shudder) Crocs - without socks! Revolting cheese feet!
Ultimately the relationship didnt work, and I blame the shoes. To whit: current boyfriend has good taste and the relationship is going the distance!; 19:04
M said...: I used to read this blogger who was always going on about how 'nice guys finish last' blah blah.

His whole schtick was that he was nice and that women saw right through him to end up with the 'mean guy' just because he was NICE. Unfortunately that wasn't actually the case - he thought that being nice should be his get out of jail free card with women. It's like all women owed him just because he was "nice". Meanwhile in reading his blog I came to the conclusion that he was shallow, unmotivated, arrogant, thought women were idiotic, complained endlessly about how he had to pay for dates (but that he was such a nice guy that he would still do it etc) and only really wanted girls to sleep with rather than be in a relationship. He wasn't nice at all - he was a dick.

The rather long winded point is that women look for different qualities in a man and it depends on their personalities. Personally I think that women who like pricks have mental issues (and I'm not trying to be funny... I honestly think they are mentally unhinged and need help). But sometimes men who think they're nice actually are not that nice.; 20:12
M said...: *And maybe the nice girls are avoiding them because they pick up on something else - desperation, or subversive fuckwittery, which are both common features in the nice guy "guise".; 20:16
Scorpy said...: I'd just like to thank Mez for my new word of the week (maybe year)...FUCKWITTERY!!! and subversive fuckwittery at that LOL; 05:04
M said...: haha, I'm trademarking it.; 10:36
Indiana said...: Non-blonde: There is no excuse for Crocs...ever.

M: So what you are saying is that some guys lie, and the lie they use is that they "are nice guys", and some women see right through them.

Well I am glad then that I know I am not nice...in fact I had my "niceness" surgically removed. ~grin~

M: Well isn't subversive fuckwittery just a ploy from "The Game"? Some women will see through it and some will not.

Scorpy: Try to work that into your conversation today.

M: LOL; 11:23
Shawn said...: "Yes, simply put: women want a bad boy, but being women ~grin~ it can never be that simple. Women, as far as I have experienced, want a guy who is capable of being nice, is a gentleman but has a little bad boy in him to keep life both interesting and exciting...it's the angel-whore dichotomy in reverse."

Yes, Yes, Yes! I like my guy precisely b/c he is a fabulously nice guy but deep down inside (where it counts) he is a wicked wicked man. ;); 12:35
Dr Bamboo said...: Well I've been an 'expat' in Japan, HK and the Middle East and my salary has never been particularly high. Being a white boy helps with some Asian women but in the end I've had to compete just like everyone else. For more on having to fight for it

http://fever2thebamboo.blogspot.com

Sorry about the shameless plug Indy. Hey care to add my blog on your vaunted list?; 18:04
Steph said...: It is endlessly baffling to me as to why you are still single. You MUST be doing something wrong, somewhere, seriously, you're a great catch, what is the dealio????; 11:39
Indiana said...: Shawn: But are you nice and then likewise wicked?

Dr. Bamboo: It is a shameless plug, trying to work out whether you are commenting or trying to simply advertise. ~grin~

Steph: I am simply waiting for you to say "yes" to a date my sweet ;-); 11:50
Dr Bamboo said...: INDY: I may also be plugging my low salary here as well. I put the word 'expat' in quotaion marks becasue in my experience it tends to mean 'highly paid banker/engineer/GM/CEO' and doesn't much apply to the rest of us who enjoy working overseas in normal occupations. We get a lot of loving too so it can't be the money...; 18:57
Indiana said...: Dr: I want to know your secret because the amount I am getting would not be considered "a lot" in any language.; 21:16
Dr Bamboo said...: Smile.; 12:26
silverwolf said...: full marks, indy. Especially true, in no particular order:

"You ask, you pay." I am a firm believer in equality but if its a first date and he asks, I would def expect him to pay. Besides, it gives me a good excuse to ask him out for a second date. ;)

If the date goes well enough, just kiss me, damnit. Don't ask. Just land me a good, hard kiss, preferably after much cheeky flirting over dessert and some painfully sexy anticipation.

As for first-date-sex - so true. The only time I would sleep with a man on a first date would be if i planned on never seeing him again.

And joy!! Finally someone speaks sense re: 3 day rule and calling the next day.

The only thing I want to add is - if you don't want to see a girl again after a first date, tell her. Call her the next day, thank her for the date and say that although you had fun, it should probably be better if you remain friends. Don't make things up because if a chick likes you, she will then proceed to flip your words around until she finds a loophole and then spend the next few months being deluded about you.

Just be a man and stick the truth out there. Trust me, we're big girls, we can handle a little pain. At least that's better for our dignity and your integrity than being taken for a ride or waiting by the phone for a call that will never come.; 00:22