The Dog's Name

Translated by
Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jnr
Wednesday, November 08, 2006

Asked by the anonymous T

There is nothing wrong with going a little slutty* on a first date, the positive on both your confidence and the assurances of the man's attention are guaranteed with the right amount sassy, even brazen sexuality. It's a date, more than that it's a first date, the whole idea is to be sexual to the point of interesting the other person enough to pursue you, that will not happen dressed as a Nun (I was going to say in a Burqa but I would not want to be accused of being politically incorrect, or religiously intolerant, so since the Catholics still have a small sense of humour, Nun it is)...Covering yourself up in the vain hope that it portrays or even conveys an image of chastity or purity is honestly...Quite silly.

If so, then the message you are trying to convey is seriously "Lost in Translation" and all the man will see is a slightly repressed, non-sexual woman, lacking confidence as he imagines a cold fish in bed...So go ahead, if you want him to ignore you and be distracted at the sight of the waitress, but if you know you like him already and you may want to see him again...Sex it up and go a little slutty.

When is it good to kiss a man (1st date?)?

Personally I would have to very intrigued, given a forward heads-up that I could accept or she would have to be extremely hot before I would bother with a second date if we didn't kiss on the first...There are exceptions, but my general rule is that if I like her I will try to kiss her...If she likes me she'll let me, if she doesn't like me then she won't kiss me...And the need to even ask her for a second date or follow up with the "I had a good time" e-mail/call will be removed.

So first date kisses: Yes. And as for when, traditionally it is at the end, however if there has been a build up of sexual tension between the two of you in the lead up to the date, then kiss early and get it out of the way...That way you can look forward to more kissing later, and the increase in sexual tension as you both think of doing it again will help the date flow smoothly and increase the likelihood of a successful first date.

How many dates before sex?

This is up to the couple, personally each situation is different but I am ok with date one or date three or even date six...I do think if it gets to date 5-6 (which could be as long as three weeks) and you have not slept together and there is not a good reason/talk why you are both holding off, then she is not that into you and I would move on...

I know my mate Wombat advocates the 10 date rule for women, while actively trying to get every woman he meets to break this very rule, but then it's not unlike wishing to marry a virgin and then spending your youth ensuring there are none. ~grin~

Is sex on first date slutty?

Yes. But in a good way. I believe women are allowed to be sexually confident and should project that...I don't believe that women will, in general, sleep with anyone, I still believe the majority of women are still quite picky when it comes to who they will let inside their g-strings (though I guess alcohol will lower this standard) so assuming she is discerning, or even just horny, good on her...As long as intentions are honestly articulated...Go for it.

I think the label of slutty is a bit hurtful, I don't believe in the double standard that makes a man a stud and a woman the slut, rather I think if you have the sexual confidence and the desire to seek multiple and varied partners for sexual adventures then that is a decision you make, as long as it is made for reasons that are your own, then go ahead and be as slutty as you want.

Personally, I think a little bit of slutty in a girl is attractive...The smoldering under the surface look that says she will be a wildcat...a touch of brazen sexuality that screams confidence. Even the packaged clothing that hints as it hides and appeals to the visual nature of the man, is something that signals how you want the date to go, or are at least are open to possibilities. And if you are not open to possibilities what are you doing on a first date?

Yet to answer the question: of course "putting out" on the first date does send a signal to the man...And this I think is how most men would/will hear it:

During the entire act, he won't be thinking at all, his little head will be in charge and if he stops to think it will be something along the lines of, "Fuck she is hot, I wonder if she wants to do this again?" and/or "How long do I have to lay here before I can piss off and not appear to be a total jerk?"

It is after the fact, when he is away from you, with the blood flowing back to the big head that he will begin to think, make decisions and, unfortunately also make judgments. Two-three days after sex on a first-date we will begin to revisit the night and doubt will creep in, we will wonder if you really are a slut (traditional meaning or tm) or we just happened to fire your slutty engine...We are hopeful of the later but accept that we are nothing special so we will assume we are not the first guy you have slept with on a first date, but we really hope we got that slutty bell ringing and that we are the first...Yet most of us are not that naive but yet we remain hopeful.

So just as you don't want to be seen as a slut (tm), we actually don't want too think of you as one...Since if you aren't then our ego and male pride is boosted (yes at this point it really is all about us, we are on the sexual high of "we got laid", nothing really else matters at this point)

So we will e-mail/call you within a non-specified time to re-assure you we don't indeed think of you as a slut (tm, though we won't say that specifically), instead we will let you know we liked you as a person, had a good time, that we enjoyed the conversation, the dinner, we may remind you of a funny anecdote from the evening while reiterating something you told us to show you we paid attention, but mostly we want to tell you that we would like to see you again. At this point, you can help the situation by suggesting that you would also like to see us again (suggested with a hint of further sexual adventures is the preferred method ~grin~) once you suggest this, even though nothing you have said tells us this perse, we will automatically assume that it was our animal magnetism that revealed your slutty nature and not something that gets paraded out every time you are in public, this and the hint of the promise will ensure that we will be humping again for dessert within a few days, sooner if you are really good in bed. Our thinking works along the lines of I don't sleep with sluts (tm), so if I am sleeping with you repeatedly then you cannot be a one. Not the best logic in the world but what do you expect when we ended up with two heads and only enough blood to fill one at a time.

You should also be aware that there is a direct proportion in time between us having sex with you and wanting too again based solely on how good you are in the sack....The better you are the quicker we want too again...This serves a twofold purpose, we get to have great sex again (with you), and we ensure that no one else is having a "tweeny", which is sex with you between our further sexual adventures.

So if you're good in the sack and we get to play again, preferably more than once, then you will not be labeled anything save wanted and desirable. If you suck in the sack, then we won't call you, and you pretty much ensured that the date was a one hit wonder.

Of course if we sucked in the sack, we may call you to try to play again in order to prove to you we are better than your first experience, that there were some mitigating circumstances. And if it is that we really just suck all the time, then I guess you will be telling all your friends and we won't be getting laid for quite some time. ~grin~

* I did not chose this word, it was asked of me, so for the purposes of this post if the word slutty offends you think instead of sexually empowered scantily clad woman with a serious desire for sex and lots of it.

Technorati Tag: The Dogs Name, Relationships, Sex, First Date, Slutty

Lectiones Sacrae Ex Libris Indiana 06:00

35 Comments:

van said...: i dont think sex on a first date is a good idea. sex is fine, sex on a first date gives a wrong message i think. the guys i know say that if she sleeps with u onthe first date one wonders if she is willing to do that with every guy? ill kiss anyone tho , first date or no date as long as im feeling emboldened enough n he looks worth it. mmmm kisses.; 10:13
Anonymous said...: Why should women care what men think?

Girls: Do as you please. If you wish to kiss on the first date, do so. If not, don't bother. Similarly, if you wish to sleep with him on the first date, do so. If not, don't bother. If you wish to dress sexy, do so. If you wish to dress like a nun or in a bee-keeper suit, do so too. It's about you, my dears. Why should it be about what he thinks, or what you think he might think? Trust your own instincts.

Have the confidence to be yourself and strut your own stuff. Dance to the rhythm of your own music not to his. Remember that a woman who is confident enough to ask for what she wants and speak her mind is an attractive one; while a woman who only seeks to please is a turn-off to most men except the ones who bully or beat their wives.; 10:31
Anonymous said...: Indy's comment taken from previous post.

"In my books it doesn’t really matter if the girl wants to kiss me or not, if I want to kiss her I will, all that matters is my desire"

Pardon me, Indy, but that sounds to me like a very bold statement to make. It does NOT matter to you whether a girl wants to kiss you or not? All that matters is your desire and you will kiss her if you want to?

What if she does not want to kiss you? You force her to? So it's really all about you and your "desire" is it?; 10:44
Sarah said...: American standards (I'm sure you know already) is sex between 3-5 dates. Sex on the first date is a no-no unless you want to keep him as a dick in the jar. If you were slutty enough to sleep with him on the first date, who knows what else you've done.; 11:22
Indiana said...: Van: I agree with you kisses are fun. And yes he does wonder if you are willing to sleep with every guy on the first date until you sleep with him again, and again...then, perhaps mistankenly, he will assume that it was something he did. (And yes this is the male ego at work)

TS Mama: Why should women care what men think? For exactly the same reason men should care what women think, the simple reason no person exists in a bubble and that to attract the eye of a mate, all species have their rituals, this just happens to be where evolution has brought ours.

“a woman who is confident enough to ask for what she wants and speak her mind is an attractive one”: not always.

“a woman who only seeks to please is a turn-off to most men except the ones who bully or beat their wives”: I agree with the “women who only”, but just because a woman seeks to please her partner she is no more a doormat than the man who seeks to do the same. And to suggest that it is a turn off to most men save those who bully and beat their wives is a stretch, since most men I know find it a turn-on when their partners try to please them.

Yet since you obviously don’t care what your man thinks and from your statement, you made it clear that you would be opposed to doing anything might please him, I have to wonder, if you ever did, would he beat and bully you?

TS Mama: (Or the woman now referred to on this blog as FHOI) To answer your question, or rather your accusatory attack, yes it is all about my desire, unless she has given a clear indication that she does not want to kiss me, it is all about me. I’m sorry that this seems a little ego-centric for you, but it is the same message you preached in the above comment. Even if she has made it clear that she does want to kiss me, it is still about my desire to kiss her or not. Her response to the kiss or refusal of such indicates her level of interest.

It would be fine to suggest that I should spend the night observing her for “signs” that she may want to kiss me, and then only proceed if I get a “green light” but most women have no idea if they want to kiss the guy until they are actually doing it, and women are not known for sending the clearest of signals.

And get off your fucking soapbox with the “you force her too” comment, if I try to kiss her and she refuses, that’s where it ends, I apologise and if she is not too embarrassed hopefully the date can continue, if she is, then the truth is “no loss”, she is probably not of the right temperament and character for me.

And as for it being all about me, again re-read your above comment when that is the very view you are preaching to women. First dates are selfish, they are about trying to find out enough about the other person to see if they are worthy of a second date and the investment of more time, they are about testing the waters for compatibility and mutual interest…the kiss is the fastest litmus for this test. I am no different than my date; she is sizing me up just as I am doing the same with her.

And why is it about me…simple, I am the man, and very few women even with women’s lib will actually initiate that first kiss (unless she is really drunk) so it is up to me to do it, to take the initiative and “test the waters”, to see if the interest is returned.

Sarah: Sex on a first date will label the woman (the double standard of dating) until such time as she sleeps with you again and again. This is the US standard, and yet it says so much about how far women’s sexuality has really come…is it the greater evil to repress desire to meet a societal tradition and religious expectation or to tread a path that says ‘I enjoy sex” and I am not afraid to embrace that lust.

Personally, I believe sex on the first date merely says that she is a sexual confident woman not afraid to admit desire and if given the opportunity and a situation of mutual lust will enjoy herself. It tells me she has a sense of self not shackled by society and religion to do what she feels and, for me, that confidence is extremely attractive and valued. Sleeping with a woman on the first date would never stop me from dating her, assuming we had a good time, and felt a connection beyond just the bedroom.; 11:33
Sarah said...: Indy- What if he doesn't want to sleep with you again because he thinks you're a slut? Then you only had sex with him without getting an opportunity to do it again and again... do your mates at the pub agree with your views?

With this argument, you hint that it is up to the woman whether or not you have sex on the first date. (if everything is consensual blah blah) Is there ever a time where YOU would refuse sex on the first date?

BTW- Taking charge and kissing her like that on the first date... totally hot. Just make sure you don't mess up the hair (unless you give her bed head which is ok by me :); 11:56
Traveling Chica said...: Wow...

Okay, well, let me say I thought it was a good post. I think your point about wishing to marry a virgin and spending your entire youth making sure there aren't any left was about perfect. :) Describes just about every man I've ever met. Something along the lines of wanting a lady in public and a whore in the bedroom?

I totally think that both the man and the woman dress for each other, especially in the start of a relationship. Because face it, if you show up dressed poorly, it's like a slap in the face to your partner. Or it is in my opinion.; 12:00
Traveling Chica said...: Shit, I forgot: men are still expected by most women to make the first move. So good for you.; 12:01
Indiana said...: Sarah: There is a double standard and there will always be guys who want to fuck you then brand you a slut, they are usually the same guys sitting in the front row of church with their grand parents. There is nothing you can do about this situation save be more discerning in who you fuck, or accept that you slept with him on your terms and to meet your needs not his.

Most of my mates do not do casual sex and aren't interested in one-night stands, they also feel it is a tad ironic to brand a girl as anything after first-date sex especially since you are the one waking up with her, in the same situation, in the same bed, and deserving of exactly the same label.

Yes, I would refuse first-date sex if I knew I had no interest in seeing her again, and that, since I had yet to sleep with her, would be determined on how compatible I felt we were and if I could see myself dating her.

Chica: I love the angel-whore dichotomy and have no trouble admitting it’s what I want. It’s not only a slap in the face; it really will in all likelihood ensure no second date for you. So I guess it depends on your goal and motivation for the first-date…a free feed or spending some time getting to know someone who intrigued you enough to say “yes”

Chica: Actually having a woman make the first move takes all the guess work out of it and is such a relief...pity it rarely happens.; 12:43
M said...: "slut" implies that she will sleep with anyone because her self esteem is low enough for her to think that if she does that she will be esteemed in someone elses eyes.

when you said "I think a little bit of slutty in a girl is attractive" did you mean - someone who is naughty - will do naughty, brazen things with the *right person* or did you really mean "slutty" who will do anything with any person?

Curious minds want to know.

I have only known one couple who actually became a real couple after the old 'sex on the first date' experience. Actually they just got married a couple of months ago, after about 6 years together. In their case, in the beginning, it was a 'one night stand' for both of them..then they met up again and did the proper date thing - didn't sleep together for a while and then blahblahblah great relationship.

Apart from that (and the way I see it, they had to start again in order to give it a real go) I haven't known any couples who have 'made it' to relationship territory after the first date sleep together. Maybe that says more about my friends than the situation..I don't know.; 14:35
Scorpy said...: ....Of course if we sucked in the sack, we may call you to try to play again in order to prove to you we are better than your first experience, that there were some mitigating circumstances. And if it is that we really just suck all the time, then I guess you will be telling all your friends and we won't be getting laid for quite some time.... Indy, this brings up a nagging point of mine of why, in the majority of cases, it is the bloke that gets lumbered with the tag of a dud root or it was the guy that had suchandsuch problem eg: Too small, too quick, too slow, too big, too selfish (?) etc there are never a lot of comments the other way other than inexperienced, rigid, smelly etc...Why is this so???
and before I get hammered with questions on my own performance can we just stick to the question at large? LOL
PS: This was hillarious...but then it's not unlike wishing to marry a virgin and then spending your youth ensuring there are none....; 14:54
Anonymous said...: Thank you for your blog on my questions.
I guess i just wanted a male point of view.
I do agree with you expect on the sex part as to me, i still think sex on the first date is still a NO NO
As no matter what he thinks, it won’t end up anywhere. As the second date would also end up there and all it would be or maybe just sex partners.
So i would still stick to my 7 dates rule. :)

Btw i like your just kiss her and see what happens attitude.
I had once where my date looked hard into my eyes and so was i and he had to break that momentum and asked me if he could kiss me. I just reached and grabbed him and kissed him instead. :)

T; 15:04
Anonymous said...: fuck typo errs.
I meant, i do agree with you Except on the sex on the first date part.

Forgive moi! :)

T; 15:09
Paige Burns said...: Good post Indy. I learn so much from you. (tweeny)

I've actually had very few dates, most guys I dated we were friends first and didn't go out on "dates", just hung out. But the first kiss is always awkward, yet thrilling.

In college I almost had a one night stand then came to my senses before anything happened. What do I mean by that? It wasn't what I wanted, I wasn't even really attracted to the guy, I was in my exploring rebellious stage, but then realized that I was better than going there at the time.

I would advocate 3rd - 5th date, maybe even more, depending on the time between dates and interaction between each other.

And a little soccer mom/hellcat never hurt anyone...; 15:17
Anonymous said...: I like men who take control, it shows that they are confident, assertive, and are not afraid to have what they want. So if a man wants to kiss me on our first date, why he may do so ( the fact that I’ve already agreed to go out on a date with him is grounds that I’m open to kissing him.), and if he doesn’t, then he doesn’t it’s not the end of the world. I would prefer him to kiss me on the first date though, because then I’d be able to tell if he’s a good kisser or not, and if it’s worth my time and effort to go on a second date. I love kissing and one of the things I look forward to on dates is anticipating if he’s going to kiss me or not, and if he does and he’s a good kisser, then I have a second date to look forward to. And a third, and so on so forth. If it works out that is.

Every person thinks differently, hence you can’t really have a set “rule” that you can only have sex after a certain number of dates. Sex on the first date doesn’t make a girl “slutty”, at least not to me, and I do agree with M that “"slut" implies that she will sleep with anyone because her self esteem is low enough for her to think that if she does that she will be esteemed in someone elses eyes.” To me, a girl is a slut ( even though I seriously dislike that term) if she sleeps around to boost her self- confidence. If a woman sleeps with a man on the first date, it doesn’t mean she’s a slut, there is nothing wrong with wanting to fuck after a night out of flirtations and chemistry. There is a big, broad red line between sexual confidence and slutty, yet people tend to mistake one for the other. I admit that I love sex, sex in a relationship is incredibly important to me, hence if I don’t get the chemistry that I want in bed, chances are the relationship isn’t going to be a very pleasant one for me and I’m going to get restless.; 15:56
M said...: Just as a little thought - why is *having* sex on the first date all about confidence? Why isn't knowing exactly what you want (whether that be sex or not) being confident? It seems to me that if men will pretty much always push for sex and you 'go along with it' then that has nothing to do with confidence. Whereas there's a lot of confidence, class and dignity involved in not putting up with crap - and walking away if something doesn't feel right.

scorp - I think when it comes to bad mouthing about performance both men and women get their fair share of being 'bagged out'. Those comments for women that you mentioned are actually really horrible things to say about someone! But - maybe it's because making a woman come isn't always a sure thing - so for women, a man being good in bed equates to being aware of her needs too and making her come. It's not like men are come machines or anything..but they're a *pretty* sure thing ;) hehe; 16:20
Anonymous said...: I loved M's comment above to Scorpy - I think men who put the effort in are seen in a way more favourable light as it hints at a mans character that he cares about the women's enjoyment.

As usual I liked this post a lot, I do find it interesting though that the male perspective on this is that first date sex indicates a sexual and personal confidence. Whereas the majority of the female commenters have been the ones to hint at women doing it on the first date as being slutty or easy (in as many words).

Interesting.

I've got my own opinions on what's cool for me, and generally if i'm not getting naked with a douchebag first date sex should be a non issue from both sides.

(Also nice fiery comment further up, kinda hot :)); 16:57
DaisyJo said...: Nice post, Indy. I can always count on you to give me a little education!

Re kissing on the first date: If I'm interested in the guy, I initiate the first kiss- maybe not by actually grabbing and kissing him, but by implying that I'd like to be kissed.

Sex on the first date? I'm too damn old to worry about labels. I know who I am and what I want. If I like him enough for a second date, then I may do it on the first. If it ends up being a one-off, so be it. I made the decision to do it, and I'm okay with that.

It's good to know that if a man's interested, he'll find a way to justify not thinking of you in terms that would imply he didn't have good judgement.; 19:59
Indiana said...: M: Based on your descriptions I of course refer to the second, however I still take umbrage at a society that labels a woman a "slut" because she choses to sleep with any and every one. Surely if she is making that decision for her own reasons then what she does is not only valid but must be supported as her right.

I can think of at least three couples who have met as first date sex (different to drunken pub one-nighters) and have married and are still together...maybe my mates are all just a weird bunch of geeks.

Scorpy: Why? Well for the same reason that a man picks up the check, makes the first move on that first kiss, usually drives on dates and is expected to live up to a label called "man"...because it is still a man's world. And it is by the yardsticks our fore fathers created that judgement is made and sentence is passed.

The irony of this is that surely a bad night of sex is the responsibility of the two involved and not just the man.

Paige: I think its natural that cross-gender friendships are changed when a person marries or becomes part of a solid relationship, this is just something that happens, maybe its sad, but it is still what happens. And I think many of them do change because people want to spend the bulk of their time with their new love, and time together is an important part of friendships, so with the one being directed at another the friendship will change.

But why is there always these double standards?

T: It's your life and therefore your rules, as long as the decisions you make are made for you and by you then they must be nothing less than correct for your reality. I had a discussion with someone recently about the amount of time you should wait for sex, and what signals it sent...my response to her was if you want to sleep with the guy on the first date and still have a relationship then you need to start dating a better class of men.

And the last time I wanted to kiss a girl I didn't ask her permission but I did tell her by the end of the evening that I would kiss her...I did...and she, as far as I can tell liked it.

Paige: I think the time is different for everyone, that's why I don't think you should necessarily sleep together on the first date but to rule it out, or to mark such an occurrence is negative also unfair. And a little hellcat is a good thing. ~grin~

VPS: There is something about the anticipation of kissing, especially when you know the person is a good kisser that makes the moment somehow tantalizing and time-altering...you really can lose yourself in a good kiss. And as for the first-date kiss, a good one is also one of my yardsticks for the possibility and desirability of a second and beyond.

Chemistry is important, sexual chemistry is vital, and restlessness leads to temptation and betrayal. Thats I think is a given formula that has existed since Adam was a boy.

M: Not having sex on the first date can be the act of a confident women, but to turn your question on its head, why "sleeping with anyone" implying low self esteem...could it also not mean that her self esteem is so high that she knows what she wants and is not afraid of stigma and labels to enjoy it.

I agree with what you say but there is also confidence, class and dignity in not suppressing your desires and doing what you truly chose to do, regardless of what is thought or how you are labeled?

Lucy: It is interesting that women are quicker to label a woman a "slut" far quicker than men...do you think this is because we judge our own genders more easily and with less tolerance than other genders?

And if you are getting naked with a douche-bag don't you deserve what happens ~grin~ And yes I can get a tad touchy...sometimes.

DasiyJo: Well I try to make my posts as didactic as possible. Thank you for having the confidence to voice the idea that if you have sex on the first date and have made the decision yourself then the result, no matter what is not a bad thing.

If a man wants you, then he wants the wanting to start right now.; 21:13
Anonymous said...: great post, Indy. You should start an Aunt Agony column!
- Ivy; 23:31
Sarah said...: I just realized that my guy friends' definition of slut is a girl who has sex with two men within 24 hours (threesomes don't count here, don't ask me why). They too never mention sex on the first date.; 23:34
Paige Burns said...: Oh, Sarah, good thinking to ask the guy friends!

Indy: double standard, are you refering to my "tear her hair out" comment? I thought of that as I typed it, but seriously, if I had a guy friend relationship that was the type of relationship I have w/ Mr. B w/o the sex, he'd be hella pissed. So I guess we're even there...; 00:17
Wombat & Aspen said...: I hate it when my sneaky plan is totally transparent.

-Wombat; 00:31
Cinnamon said...: I just have to speak up about that first paragraph, as the Nice Catholic Girl you know I am...

"It's a date, more than that it's a first date, the whole idea is to be sexual to the point of interesting the other person enough to pursue you, that will not happen dressed as a Nun"

Excuse me? But if I came on the first date, actually dressed up in a Habit... for whatever reason.. oh, boy I would SO be fucking his lights out. We'd be doing things that are illegal in 12 states, even between consenting adults. That would just be too hot to resist.

Hehehehe. But then again, I am just a little bit slutty like that.

Just had to say. You know, as a Nice Catholic Girl, and all. ;); 02:55
M said...: well, "sleeping with anyone" doesn't exactly imply low self esteem, just as you said. There are always other factors involved. My point was that thus far in this post women who were sleeping with the guy on their first date' were seen as confident when in fact the opposite may be just as true. Just balancing things out a bit ;)

Regarding validating her right to have sex when she wants - you're absolutely right, it is her right to do what she wants. Personally I'm not really a first date sleep-with kind of girl (but it's not a *rule* maybe I just haven't met the person that would illicit that yet? heh heh) - and I certainly wouldn't badmouth or be mean about any girl who did.

Having said that - apart from "personal rights", there are the right reasons to do something and the wrong reasons to do something. Now I'm specifically talking about someone who sleeps with people because they have low self esteem - sure I realise that judgment is not mine to make about other people, but I have known people who were sleeping with anyone and everyone because they just wanted to be liked - because they felt so bad about themselves. And, god - what happens behind closed doors, you know when the guy has gone and has already started snickering about it (or composing that email to make her feel better about being rejected), is just not good at all indy.

We can't assume that everyone who has sex on the first date is sexually confident. They may very well be and that's cool - but it's not a given.

(love the stories about your 3 married friends - very cool!); 04:01
sipwine said...: Its funny, I use to completely agree with you on all those topics.

Then the last two people I dated came along.
Both of them I was too nervous to initiate a kiss on the first date and tried hard not to encourage... for some reason, I became this elusive object that they wanted to try harder to get...
So I guess I played hard-to-get and it worked.; 04:52
Anonymous said...: Ivy: Somehow I don't think a column whose main advice is "you need to get laid more often" would really work ~grin~

Sarah: Because if being a "slut" is sex on a first date what does it really say about the guy who sleeps with her...if you admit to knowing it, you are admiting to sleeping with the "slut" and are while you brag of conquests you are lessened in the eyes of men around you...and for guys life is one big "pissing competition" and "cock-fight" and we all know the best guy still wins.

Ivy: Admiring glances are good...wanting to sink you teeth into a guy can be good ~grin~ Not looking at each other either shows you both have high-functioning Asbergers or you are scared of salivating the in the presence of said objections of desire.

They must be nice tits ~bigger grin~

Paige: Of course you are...once you are ensconed in a relationship our friendships with the same gender change, whether it is out of respect, consideration or even the unspoken preference of our partner those friendships are moved to the "back burner", the only exception is for gay friends.

Wombat: We are guys mate, a smart woman has seen through us 5 mins before we even meet her...if she likes us she'll let us follow through on our plan just so she can enjoy herself...if she really likes us she'll let us follow through on our plan just so we can enjoy her.

Cinn: Having also ben subject to the rigours of Catholic School I am yet to meet a Nun that I would even consider kissing let alone getting naked with. So I can't say getting nasty with one has ever been a blip on my fantasy radar.

But it's nice to know you are keeping up the tradition of fine Catholic School Girls and spreading the legs...erm...I mean word around (sorry, I always get them two confused.)

M: I don't assume anything about anyone and as ar as my experience goes the only girls I have had first-date sex with are grils that I liked, and from the first date "vibe" had already decided I wanted to see again. Maybe having sex so early complicated things, or maybe it just got it out there so we could enjoy more about each other...I don't know I have never stopped to examine it.

I do agree there are many reasons people do things, and to blindly group everyone in one catagory is a mistake, no matter what issue we are talking about.

Sip: Everyone wants the thing they can't have, it is in being an exclusive item that something is valued more and made desirable. And I guess men are very this way in the pursuit of women...but to make an analogy.

This man saved for a suit, for years he wore jeans and his favourite t-shirt. He worked hard, he saved, he lusted after a suit.
Finally one day after all his hard work, he had the suit made, cut from the finest linen, the tailoring fit him perfectly, wearing it made him feel great, the envy of others, it was one of a kind.
The man was then scared that his suit may get damaged, that he needed to protect it, so he wrapped it in plastic, and pushed it to the back of his wardrobe, where it would be safe.
He went back to his jeans and favourtie t-shirt, and back to work occassionaly taking out the suit to look at, remembering the feel of it against his skin, always careful to replace it before returning to his jeans and favourite t-shirt.
One day the man died and he was buried in his suit."

There are many interpretations to this story, as a moralistic tale of learning it has more than a few meanings...make of it what you will.; 06:20
Traveling Chica said...: I totally know men who badmouth the performance of women they have been with and it drives me nuts. I hate hearing badmouthing on either side, Scorpy, because my guess is that both sides are a little bit to blame.

He's too small? --> Maybe she's really stretched too wide

He/She is too slow? --> pick up the tempo yourself!

Etc, etc, etc.

There are some people who just don't connect in the sack: move on from that, but don't belittle people while doing. Just my opinion.; 10:18
Anonymous said...: I still think he's gay, and very attracted to the nice brooch i was wearing. So he was looking at my brooch, not my tits.

I think i must ask my friends which side he bats on man. I'm such a sucker for these middle eastern types!

- the ivy; 22:56
Wanderlusting said...: You know, there just seems to be so many questions about sex on a first date, so many women wondering what men will think, so many men saying they don't care...

...am I the only one that wonders is it OK if you DON'T have sex on a first date? Because it seems like putting out on a 1st or 2nd date is the norm now.

Slutty*(to use Indy's term) is so expected now, does anyone still like the good girls (who might just put out a couple weeks later)?

I know I've blogged about this before, but everywhere I turn it's like girls who aren't "slutty" get the bad rap.

*I think the term "Slutty" is a bit extreme for someone who puts out on the first date. Unless they have 5 different dates a week.; 07:30
Wanderlusting said...: And I agree with M. Just because you are sexually confident does NOT mean you put out on first date, and just because you don't put out on first date, does NOT mean you aren't sexually confident.

You can be sexually confident, love sex and be a hugely sexual person, and still be choosey about who you want to sleep with and when.

Maybe the world is too fucking impatient. Ah...that was almost a pun ;); 07:35
Anonymous said...: See.. on my first dates, I wear my favorite good butt jeans.. and maybe something casual for a shirt to show I'm trying but not too hard - and I want to seem like I care if he thinks I'm attractive.

I've kissed on the first dates, had sex on first dates, hugged goodbye on first dates but wanted the kiss so badly.. and sometimes just been happy not doing that and waiting. It so depends on the chemistry out there. My ex kissed my very slyly on our first date cuz I wasn't expecting it and we slept together by the 2nd or 3rd date I think.. which was about average for me. And I don't know if it was him or the sitch, but he never saw me beyond datable.. which meant nothing serious.

I don't think anything is wrong w/ sex on the first date - but then the guy has to think nothing is wrong w/ it either if you're to see them again or you both understand you both may just be scratching an itch. Still ok in my book if you're ok w/ that.

But I do believe in the old stand by, even tho I'm not good at doing it, which is why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free.. and that most often, putting out early means there's no reason for them to chase you, get to know you too well, get too close. I hate the game, but there is something to it, the processing, the guessing, the wanting and desire. To me, that's sexy and fun.; 07:20
Anonymous said...: Chica: I think the worse thing is when the belittling is really being done from a position of insecurity, rather than a more positive and growing position.

Ivy: Looking at a girls necklace is the oldest paly in the book...it lets you look at your tits without looking at them. :-) Are you a sucker? Or is that just your desired preference?

Lusty: I think people just couldn't be bothered in this microwave-insta-noodle society to invest time in a relationship in which the physical connection is not there, or needs to be worked on...so sex early elleviates the need/worry of it. I think waiting is just as acceptable as doing it on the first date...but I do think you send a different interest message to the guy based very much on how you dress on the first date.

Lusty: The world is too impatient, of that there is no question. I know I am. I want what I want and I want it yesterday.

Miss D: The story about the cow and the free milk is a whole other ballgame in terms of posts and really speaks towards men and fear of committment. There is something enticing about waiting...and there is something enticing about giving in to lust...I think as long as both parties are honest, then it doesn't hurt anyone.

And Sexy fun is very often good fun. ~grin~; 16:09
noteapot said...: I'm curious on your definition of great sex ?
I find that most girls who confidently declare themselves great at sex generally aren't also that many of them treat it like a two hour gym session. "I had sex standing on my head and 18 other positions therefore i'm great at it" . Also bad are the ones who tell you how highly other men have rated them. Only a man who never wants to do you again would tell you you were bad in bed. The best sex i have had has always been with women who dont declare their true intentions upfront and leave you with limited expectations but go off like firecrackers in bed.
Not sure why that is. Perhaps the uncertainty adds to the sexual tension or perhaps its that feeling that you've uncorked the Genie. So while at a theoretical level i accept that openess and confidence is the best thing, my personal reality has proved that not to be the case.; 14:40
Dr Bamboo said...: I think girls that like you and want to pursue a relationship with you will generally not get physical on the first date. This has proven true with most nationalities of girls I've dated: NZ, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Thai, Indonesian, even a Mauritian. The reason is simple and obvious: if you feel the same about her it's worth the wait.

However in other cases I've slept with most of the above nationalities on the first date as well. If not sex, then we at least indugled in heavy petting. In such cases I never though "What a slut" - the girl is doing this because she likes you, she finds you sexy and she has needs too, but she probably doesn't want to pursue a relationship with you.

If I want to get to know a girl better, then I'm physically pretty cold on the first date: almost no touching and certainly no attempt at getting a goodnight kiss or getting into her pants. I don't want to scare her off. But if I sense she's just there for some fun (and that metric is often defined in the place and manner of your first meeting her anyway) then of course I may be after the same thing. No harm done in non-commital (I won't say 'casual') sex between consenting adults as long as it's safe sex.

It doesn't make her easy. It doesn't make her cheap. It doesn't make him a sleaze or a 'player'. There is no such thing as a slut in my book.

And the best thing is if you like playing together, then the two of you can do it again. That's why they're called sex-FRIENDS.; 17:45